In Bullies: A Friendship, Abramovich warily reconnects with a childhood nemesis— who now runs an Oakland motorcycle club called the East Bay Rats.

You first knew Trevor Latham in grade school. How has he changed?

I remembered Trevor because he had a memorable name for a bully, and I remember him beating me up after school. Trevor remembers the same stuff; for him it means that we used to be friends. He is much more comfortable with violence than I am; I don’t bond with my friends by breaking their bones. When I met him in Oakland to do an article about the Rats, I expected him to be scarier—but he was very articulate, intelligent, funny in a dry way.

What was it like with spending time with the Rats?

They are famous for staging “fight parties” with a boxing ring, but Trevor says it’s more Jackass than Fight Club. There were indeed lots of fights. The Rats are the biggest guys in the room, and guys who need to prove themselves would walk up to a Rat and tell him to go fuck himself. You’ll get your beat-down if you do that; that’s a service they provide. It’s all fun and games—until it isn’t. I saw some dark things.

Like what?

There was an incident with a can collector, a recycler—one of the most disturbing things I’ve ever seen. There’s tension in the neighborhood with the recyclers, who are sometimes homeless and have substance-abuse problems. The Rats once suspended a shopping cart full of cans high above San Pablo Avenue outside their clubhouse to see how long it would take the recyclers to get the cans. There was a crowded party, a lot of bikers, and one recycler kept darting in between people to pick up cans; people were getting annoyed. He got beaten down and run over by a motorcycle. I wish I had done something to stop it. Trevor’s line was, “Crackheads are resilient.”

Trevor joined the security detail of Occupy Oakland. What drew him to that?

Occupy Oakland was a militant communist/anarchist thing. It was extreme in a way Trevor appreciated. After the camp got evicted they put a fence around City Hall Plaza. Trevor tore down the fence, then raised his fist and said, “Take the intersection.” And the intersection was taken: the crowd surged in and started marching toward police headquarters. Trevor peeled off and went to a bar. He told me, “I don’t care about the politics; I’m only here for the violence.”

What do the Rats tell us about American society?

They’re a perfect microcosm. Modern motorcycle clubs were created by World War II; spikes in membership coincide with the Korean War, the Vietnam War, and the Middle East wars. Guys came back shell shocked and needed each other. The Rats are an embodiment of the current of violence that runs through America. This country was born in blood.