In November 2019, E. Jean Carroll sued President Donald Trump for defamation. The lawsuit stemmed from an alleged sexual assault in 1996 by the then real estate developer in a dressing room inside the Bergdorf Goodman department store in New York City. A jury found Trump guilty, and in November 2022, after the passing of the Adult Survivors Act allowing victims to file civil suits in New York State beyond the statute of limitations, Carroll also sued Trump for battery, and again for defamation. She prevailed a second time, as the jury found Trump liable for sexual abuse, battery, and defamation. Carroll has been awarded a total of $88.3 million in damages by the courts. Her account of the trials, Not My Type: One Woman vs. a President (St. Martin’s Press, out now), was heavily embargoed before its release earlier this week, when Carroll spoke with PW about her pursuit of justice, the importance of speaking truth to power, and how much better things would be if women ran this country.
This book is more than an account of a trial from one party’s perspective. It’s also a memoir with some snarky commentary. Was there any specific incident that prompted you to write Not My Type, and to write it in such a “gonzo journalistic” way, with as much emphasis on such things as your past lovers and your clothing as on the actual proceedings?
It's a memoir of a very intense time when I went up against one of the most powerful people on Earth. Those five years also were one of the most intense and fascinating periods that anyone, I think, in any century, has ever lived. Those five years were astonishing. And for me, what it really was all about, was doing battle with a very, very, very powerful man. And when you go into battle, you have to dress for battle. You just think about battle and everything in your life changes; it becomes very different and unsettling and exciting and terrifying. I was smart enough to keep a very accurate record of the day-to-day goings-on. And, of course, I am going to write about it.
Why did you write Not My Type, which required you to dredge up unpleasant memories? What do you hope to accomplish?
Well, he's rewriting history as you and I are sitting here, talking on the phone. My job is, and was, to write the facts. So that's what I did. And I have extensive documentation; I used the trial transcripts, which are like a Shakespearean play. I had some of the greatest lines that have ever been written in that book, because they occurred in court. It's all in a transcript. So, yes, there’s a record, and you couldn't stop me from writing this book. Even if my head exploded, I would go on writing.
Trump claimed that you were “not his type” of woman. Why did you decide to emphasize that belittling comment in the book’s title?
Because he meant it. When I was growing up—actually, until 2019—to say someone “is not my type” was a polite way of saying you just didn't feel that indescribable “something” for that person. But when Trump said it in 2019, he was famous at the time for denigrating women. So when he said, “she's not my type,” in connection to a sexual assault accusation, it riveted people. It was a cultural moment. When he said “type,” he went to the very [essence] of the trial, of all trials that deal with sexual assault, that the woman's body is what sets her up: is she attractive enough to assault? This is basically what the jury has to decide, and he told the jury that [I] was too ugly to attack. I wore my hair like I wore in 1996, I wore clothes I wore in 1996, I wore the same kind of makeup I wore in 1996, just so the jury could see some kind of a shadow of the woman I was in 1996 when they were looking at an 80-year-old woman in the courtroom—even though Trump himself is an old guy sitting there, wearing apricot makeup and his hair all blown up.
The news cycle has moved on from Trump’s alleged sexual assaults to the Trump administration’s detainment and deportation of immigrants without due process. Do you think the book’s reception may be muted because the news cycle is no longer focused on Trump’s poor treatment of individuals, but rather huge groups of people?
Trump is constantly acting up and tearing up and shredding our democracy, and he's been doing so for the last eight years. Some books are affected by it, and some books are so good that people want to read about Trump and will pick up a book that's going to entertain them. It's very hard to tie book sales to the headlines, because if we start doing that, then you have to go back through the last eight years to see how each book was affected. I don't think [the news cycle] has much to do with it. I think people simply want to escape and read a good book. And frankly, I'd like them to get off their lazy asses and not wait for somebody else to deal with Trump. We all have to deal with Trump; we all have to walk out the front door and let everybody know that we do not like what's going on.
Are you going to make any personal appearances to promote the book, go on tour and sign copies at bookstores?
The only thing we're doing is, I'm doing unannounced television. You know, suddenly I will appear on television shows, and I'm doing a lot of podcasts from various places. But I can't do anything where we announce it ahead of time.
Anything else you want PW readers to know about you and about Not My Type?
Not My Type is a funny book, a good beach read. Two of my lawyers fell in love during the trial and got married, so we have a love story too. Not My Type is also a call to arms—it’s about sparking women's fire to once again stand up and not let men keep running this country. It's not good, and I think we have the power. I am an old woman, but I am the only person to have beaten Trump twice. People should read this book to find out how it happened, and what a genius [Carroll’s lead attorney] Roberta Kaplan is. She’s one of the greatest attorneys to have ever practiced law in this country. She’s brilliant—and I would like to leave your readers with that.
This interview has been edited for clarity.
