A two-time Carnegie Medalist, and recently shortlisted for this year’s award, Patrick Ness is just as surprised as readers to be returning to his Chaos Walking series. But after pulling the thread on an irresistible idea, the author is back with a new book in that universe, Piper at the Gates of Dusk, the first in The New World trilogy. Set 20 years after the events of Monsters of Men, on a previously inhabited planet, the story follows brothers Ben, who is nonverbal, and Max, a trans adoptee, as conflict breaks out among humans and the native humanoids (known as the Land), due to the spread of nightmares among human children. Ness spoke with PW about the pressure of returning to a beloved universe, the influence of dark fairy tales, and encouraging readers to question how people rise to power.
Congratulations on making the Carnegie Medal shortlist! How does it feel?
I’m so thrilled—especially for my first middle grade book Chronicles of a Lizard Nobody. That is such a pleasurable surprise. When you’re a children’s writer, so many people sort of smile at you condescendingly, but just like every other middle grade writer, I put my whole heart into this book, and I love it so much. Just because it’s shorter and it’s younger doesn’t mean it’s any easier.
And now onto this new book! You’d previously stated that you had no plans to return to the Chaos Walking series. What made you change your mind?
Kids would ask all the time, “Will there be more?” And I always said, “Never say never.” But I said that meaning, no. I really never planned to go back, because I felt the trilogy ended exactly the way I wanted it to end. I like a story that’s complete, and I like to let my characters just get on and live their lives. But then all these years later, very annoyingly, I’d have an idea, and that’s really all that happened. I always say the best thing to do with an idea is to wait to see if it grows, to see if it sprouts other ideas. And unexpectedly, this one did. And so I thought, well, I guess I’m going back.
The Chaos Walking books are incredibly beloved, with more than three million copies worldwide and plenty of accolades. Did you feel any pressure in returning to that world?
Very much so. And that’s an important part of my creative process. I am terrified of approaching a book that I think will be “easy,” because I think complacency is creative death. So for each project, I want to be fruitfully nervous. And this one is such a high-wire act, because you have to be respectful to people who’ve read it, and respectful to the story that you’ve already written. And most of all, you have to be loyal to the story you need to tell. So it’s very tricky, but I find that kind of stuff exciting.
Fans will be excited to see the return of Todd and Viola, characters from the Chaos Walking series. How did you want to showcase their growth from young heroes to adults?
I could not get comfortable with the idea of picking up immediately after the trilogy; that never felt right to me. And I thought this was such a great opportunity to allow Todd and Viola to have a life that I didn’t fictionalize, that they just sorted out themselves, and I came back to visit 20 years later. It felt natural letting them age the way a reader might have aged. They’re different people now, but how would they have changed, and what kind of parents would they be? What kind of marriage would they have? Those aren’t necessarily the usual YA topics, so to see it from the point of view of their sons felt fun.
This novel focuses on brothers Ben and Max. Why did you feel a sibling dynamic was the best choice for this story?
I like sibling dynamics. I get along with my brother and sister, but fiction needs conflict and sibling conflict is an easy one to do. It just was never my first-hand experience. I really liked the idea of books on found family and how a found family binds itself together. Ben is the biological son of Todd and Viola, and Max is their adopted son. I loved the push and pull of these two really different brothers.
The title seems to reference “The Pied Piper,” which touches on promises, betrayal, and revenge. What aspects of the story were you pulling on for this book?
“The Pied Piper” is a weird story if you think about it. It’s not like a normal fairy tale, because what’s the lesson? Pay your bills or your children will be stolen? And so it becomes [a question of] what is the story actually about and why does it last so long? There’s the fear of a child being taken away and of not knowing your kids. But there’s also the child at the end who gets left behind. And I thought, in a world full of noise, the child who would get left behind is the one who doesn’t have a “voice.” Ben literally can’t speak, but that doesn’t mean he doesn’t have a voice. That felt like an interesting way to examine what the hell does “The Pied Piper” mean? It’s such a strange and disturbing fairy tale that it just felt appropriate for this alien place.
What was most exciting about getting to showcase more about the Land, their culture, and the way things operate in their world?
It’s what we do whenever we colonize anywhere. We go in and we say, “Oh, they’re primitive.” And what a dangerous, disastrous mistake that is. In these books, humans did the same thing, and this is finally the chance to look a little closer. If you call someone primitive, you’re not describing them, you’re only describing yourself and your point of view. So what are the “primitive people” actually like? How does calling them primitive harm you and harm them? And I loved the idea that the closer you look, the more complicated and more sophisticated the Land get, because they’ve been there for hundreds of thousands of years and have developed a really rich culture.
Fear is also a feeling that bleeds through a lot of this story. What did you hope to highlight about our responses to fear, and how we can change that in the future?
There are political parallels that I didn’t even intend. I wasn’t consciously setting out to make them. They’re just so clearly in the zeitgeist that that’s what the story seemed obviously to be about. Humans have always faced this paradox that the thing we want most is certainty, and the thing that the universe does not offer is certainty. That tension between what we want and what we’re given opens up a lot of room for manipulation, because politicians, above all, have to appear certain, and that can be effective and but it can also be super dangerous. And then you start to wonder, what certainty am I being offered and why? All I want anyone to do is ask questions. I’m not making an argument for politics one way or another, but saying [we need to] get more than one source. Don’t take everything at face value. Really try to understand why you’re being sold something, especially by a politician.
What continues to draw you to sci-fi, particularly for young readers?
Young readers are wildly open-minded about it. If you give them a good story, they will follow you anywhere. And the other reason is that I tend to believe that there is no such thing as realism. All fiction is fantasy. All fiction is created. Even if it looks like our universe, it’s still a fantasy. If I can embrace that, then all I need to do is create a universe where my story can logically take place, and find the truth in that. It’s finding how to replicate true human emotion and experience. That honesty of human experience is not owned by any particular genre, it’s available in every single one, and so I just shrug my shoulders and go have fun.
Piper at the Gates of Dusk (The New World #1) by Patrick Ness. Candlewick, Apr. 7 $19.99; ISBN 978-1-5362-4830-2
